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Wanting

Unread postPosted: 20 Aug 2016 17:51
by Vlet Hansen
It's more of my personal way of viewing things, but...

So the word for "want" is copaanir, but then we have vercopa for a very similar phrase.

Looking at this, it almost looks like the root here is just copar, and copaanir is a clumsy way of saying I want, made redundant by ni copaani, which also sounds clumsy as hell to me.

If I'm saying "I want this" I'd much rather phrase it "Ni copa bic."

Thoughts? Any other words that look like they could be simplified in a similar way?

Re: Wanting

Unread postPosted: 04 Oct 2016 02:01
by Ruus
You don't need to say Ni copa bic. It's all summed up in the word 'copaani'. Hence you have 'copaani beskar', copaani geroya', 'copaani beskad' etc. This is one of the things I love about Mando'a: context is everything, and many of the words don't need to be changed to reflect number (none of them reflect gender anyway).

IMO vercopa is a word that has more emphasis i.e. I really want.

Just my two cents.

Re: Wanting

Unread postPosted: 04 Oct 2016 07:08
by Belandrie Meave
Osik, Vlet's right. 'Copar' + 'ni' = I want. Which inverts the usual subject-verb order, but it's easier to say, which in Mando'a I guess is more important.
So vercopa is 'will want'. Which fits what Ruus said if it's something like... say a new video game: 'I want this now, and I will still want this in a week'. Unlike cake or soda, which you want now, but it's no big deal if you don't get it, and you'll forget about it soon.
Q, though: would you say 'Copaani ibac' and point to what you mean? A direct translation of just 'Copaani' sounds like baby-talk is all: 'I want.'

Re: Wanting

Unread postPosted: 05 Oct 2016 01:29
by Ruus
True, but isn't the point of the language as much brevity as possible?
Although I understand why you might use ni copaani; in Spanish which I am also learning they actually use double emphasis precisely like that to add a stronger emphasis. I don't have a problem with it, but from what I can tell it bugs new learners. Maybe we are looking at something similar here?

Also, there is the fact that copaani doesn't just mean 'I want.' It covers the entire three persons of wanting, both singular and plural. For instance in True Colors, when Kal askes Delta to join the ball game he asks "Copaani geroy?" NOT "Gar copaani geroy" which is how it would be said in English.

Personally, some of these apparent contradictions I am perfectly willing to accept as part of learning a different language. If Mando'a mimicked English perfectly I would be worried.

Re: Wanting

Unread postPosted: 05 Oct 2016 13:25
by Vlet Hansen
I'm less interested in mimicking english and more in things following a sensible pattern, which copaani doesn't seem to.

Re: Wanting

Unread postPosted: 06 Oct 2016 00:46
by Ruus
Well, I haven't been studying Mando'a very long. Is copaani the only word like that in the lexicon so far?

Re: Wanting

Unread postPosted: 07 Oct 2016 06:10
by Vlet Hansen
Only one I've noticed so far, yeah

Re: Wanting

Unread postPosted: 14 Nov 2016 10:26
by Taljair te Mir'ad
I support Maeve's idea, that copaani is something you want now and vercopa is something you just want, not nesseserily right this moment.